The Rant Podcast
A bi-weekly podcast focused on pulling back the curtain on the American higher education system and breaking down the people, the policies and the politics. The podcast host, Eloy Ortiz Oakley, is a known innovator and leader in higher education. The podcast will not pull any punches as it delves into tough questions about the culture, politics and policies of our higher education system.
The Rant Podcast
A New American Talent Strategy with Margaret Spellings
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Host Eloy Ortiz Oakley welcomes former U.S. Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings, now leading the Bipartisan Policy Center, to discuss BPC’s Commission on the American Workforce and its report, “A Nation at Risk to A Nation at Work.” They outline the need for a national talent strategy that breaks down federal silos across agencies and better aligns education, workforce systems, employers, and support services like childcare and transportation. Spellings describes the commission’s structure, why urgency is growing amid post-pandemic disruption and AI-driven workforce change, and recommends creating a national-level American Talent Council, improving data and transparency, and focusing policy on workers and learners. They also discuss bipartisanship, the federal role in civil rights and accountability, and BPC’s broader work on housing, energy, fiscal policy, and election governance.
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/event/americas-workforce-blueprint-national-talent-strategy/
bipartisanpolicy.org
eloy@4leggedmedia.com
Hi, this is Eloy Ortiz Oakley, and welcome back to The Rantt Podcast. The podcast where we pull back the curtain and break down the people, the policies. The politics of our higher education system. In this episode, we get to talk about all three, the people, the policies, and the politics of higher education. First, the people. I have a very special guest today. She is the eighth, US Secretary of Education, Margaret Spellings. Margaret is with me today as the leader of the Bipartisan Policy Center, and we're gonna talk about the bipartisan policy center's work and the commission on the American workforce, a commission that they launched about a year ago whose work culminates today with a report and recommendation, which leads us to the policy, the Bipartisan Policy Center's Commission on the American Workforce released its report today. The Commission on the American Workforce's report is titled A Nation at Risk to A Nation at Work, and its focus is on pulling together recommendations from a whole set of areas, including higher education, the workforce, employers. as well as a number of other adjacent areas to put a focus on creating a blueprint for Congress and for states throughout the country to create an American talent strategy. That is the policy that we'll talk about today coming together as Americans, institutions from Washington, DC to the state capitals of all 50 states Putting an emphasis on American workers, on learners and ensuring that they have the opportunities to get the skills that they need to compete in today's economy, and the opportunity to have the safety and security nets available to them so that they can prosper in this economy. So that's the policy, the politics well. Margaret and I will talk about the politics of how this gets done, the challenges that exist in Congress and in every state. the polarization that continues to challenge us every single day. but Margaret has a message for Congress. This is a unique opportunity in American history given all the challenges we face throughout the pandemic, the changes in the workforce, and the changing demands. Because of AI now in the workforce, this is a moment to ensure that Americans of all backgrounds in all 50 states have the opportunity to thrive in this economy. And for the federal government to come together and break down silos from the Department of Homeland Security to the Department of Defense, to the Department of Education, department of Labor, department of Commerce, so on and so forth. And I can't think of a better person to talk about breaking down those silos than Margaret Spellings from her experience in the White House to serving as Secretary of Education, serving in higher education in the University of North Carolina. The work that she did in partnership with Goldman Sachs on 10,000 Small Business Program to the work that she's leading now at the Bipartisan Policy Center. I will include links to the information that we talked about today. I'll include a link to the Bipartisan Policy Center and when it's available, a link to the report. A Nation at Risk to a Nation at Work. So with that backdrop, please enjoy my conversation with Margaret Spellings.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249Margaret, welcome to The Rantt podcast.
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249Hi Eloy. Great to be with you, my dear friend.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249It's great to be with you. It's great to see you, and it's always great to have the, eighth US Secretary of Education. Join us here on The Rantt podcast. Does it feel like a million years ago, Margaret?
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249Yeah, and, and in many ways just yesterday, because a lot of the stuff we talked about then is all back in fashion today. So that's public policy for you?
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249That is public policy for you. I was thinking back to to the days that you were in office and just thinking about what were the controversies back then. They just seem so small compared to what's going on today.
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249Well, the only thing I like about that is that people, you know, George Bush and I look pretty darn good.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249I know. That's funny. Yes. we, we all, uh, feel nostalgic about the, the w administration these days and, and he's done such a great job of, uh, of being a, a great role model for our former president. So, there, that's my shout out to, to w.
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249Thank you. I appreciate that.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249All right. So Margaret, a lot has been going on in, in your life. A lot has been going on in the world since you were the Secretary of Education. you've had several roles, but today you serve in the role of leading the bipartisan policy center and. For our listeners some of us who go in and around Washington, DC are familiar with the BPC, the Bipartisan Policy Center. But for many of our listeners this is probably the first time they've heard about the bipartisan policy center or are questioning whether or not anything should be called bipartisan these days.
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249You know, I hear that a lot, as you would expect. Well, BPC, the Bipartisan Policy Center was founded about 20 years ago by four Senate majority leaders, two Republicans and two Democrats who believed and knew that the best long-term public policy was made when people worked together, come together to chart long-term solutions on behalf of the American people. And that is still as true today as it was. 20 years ago, no doubt about it. And you know, while it might seem, if you're watching Fox or M-S-N-B-C or whatever your flavor is that, that, that it's dead the truth is that bipartisanship really is alive and well, particularly on things that, you know where the public is very much engaged. And so we are about to pass. God willing, and the creeks don't rise. Some major legislation around housing and housing affordability, which of course is resonating across the country on both sides of the aisle. Things like permitting reform around energy and infrastructure. Likewise, you know, even the u stuff, uglier stuff. When we keep the government open, it's bipartisan. And when we have a deal on, on DHS, on the Homeland Security Department, it will have to be bipartisan. So sometimes it looks prettier than others, but bipartisanship really is alive and well. And it needs to be. It has to be. So that is why I show up every day because I believe that good public policy is made when people come together. And you know, often the, the, the extremes dominate the debates. But when it comes to public policy, we come to things that really are better reasoned than that. And there's a lot of recent examples, some of which you're, you're well aware of.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249No, that's right. And it's a great reminder that the only way forward for us in this country, given, the challenges that we all face today is through bipartisanship. That has to continue to be the way forward. That's been the way forward. That's how we got here. That's how we've been able to overcome all the challenges that we faced over the 250 years of our history. So I appreciate you taking on this role.
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249We've made progress. I mean, we know, we've seen what the consequences are when we're flipping back and forth. Four years of flavor, A and four years of flavor B, and then back to flavor A and back to, you know, but, but the mitigator of that is congressional action around bipartisanship. And the other thing that I love about BPC is we are unique. We're a think tank kind of, but we also have a, a c four. Affiliated organizations, so we, we do public policy work. We're gonna talk about some of that that you've been involved with, and we aim to get it done on the hill and make it stick.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249It's great to have advocates like you and your team out there continuing to push. So let's talk a little bit about that push. The reason we're talking today is because bipartisan Policy Center launched a commission on the American workforce and is publishing their report today. Tell us a little bit about the commission's work, why BPC decided to launch this work and why now, particularly when many Americans are feeling the frustration of a slow acting Congress gridlock polarization tell us about the work.
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249Well, a little more than a year ago we formed this commission co-chaired by, by two governors Deval Patrick from Massachusetts, former governors and Bill Haslam from Tennessee. Both highly respected, very energized education governors, and along with about 20. Two, three commissioners and then supported with about 50 or 60 experts from around the country. We broke into some subgroups that looked at K 12, that looked at post-secondary, that looked at workforce, and that looked at something we don't often look at, which is this kind of supports that workers need to stay in the workforce. And so you were kind enough to chair one of those subgroups and guide the process. We're unveiling the report just today. And you know, the, the reason behind it is because, you know, look, we have a national economic strategy. We have a national security strategy as a country. But I think you and I both believe, and I think most people believe that the number one asset of the American economy is its people. And so that we need a national talent strategy. The federal government invests in billions, hundreds of billions of prog of dollars of programming across many federal agencies, and it's pretty incoherent. And so how can we be smarter about how we deploy federal resources in partnership with states in a time when the workforce is changing? The, the, the stakes are changing. Technology is changing. There are so many disruptors that we better get our act together as a country with a national talent strategy and make it a priority for today and into the future.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249right. I'm glad you mentioned all of these adjacent areas, because typically what happens is. Commissions or task forces come together on a specific issue, K 12 or higher education, or maybe within higher education, the community college system or the research one universities. And very rarely do we think about it in terms of, centering it on the worker or the learner, all the things that they have to deal with. So tell us about how you came together with all these adjacent areas and how they overlap and how do you want policy makers to think about this overlap between childcare and K 12 education and the role of employers?
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249Well, for starters, we need to to think in that kind of holistic way, and we do not do that now. I mean, I ran a big department that had a piece of that, but obviously had nothing to do with the Department of Labor or the HHS or the Defense Department, or. NSF or any of the myriad things that are, that are touched upon when we think about a national talent strategy. So for starters, we need to have a, a, a conversation that is about the whole of the problem and one of the recommendations that's, that's really important and might seem bureaucratic, but it's really not, is to have a, you know, national level American talent Council. That can take that broad view. That would be you know, partly the executive branch, but also populated by support from the Congress and so forth so that we have a plan, that we have an American national talent plan that rises to the level of that kind of weightiness and not just disconnected programs. Scattered Heather and yawn over the government because we know, you know, people cannot be as, as successful in higher education. Something you know a good bit about if they're not prepared to be successful when they show up on your doorstep. We also know that, you know, if people don't have adequate childcare or adequate transportation, they can neither get to continuing education nor to their employment. And so how do we take a broader view? On behalf of the American people so that we're using our resources wisely, having better outcomes for, for them, and frankly, better you know, propellant for our economy in this very critical time.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249I love the way that you framed this. This is a a national talent strategy. As every mayor, every governor in this state. Struggles with this, wrestles with this every single day. Talent in cities, talent in regions, talent in the state, the need to be competitive. That's certainly true in my state here in California. That's true In in Texas and in New York and everywhere you go. So this is something people relate to, but governments rarely come together around this because of the various silos. Based on the recommendations, how would you like to see the Federal Government Act going forward under this new talent strategy?
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249Just as if you're managing anything, we have to start with what are we trying to do? What are the objectives? You know, on whose behalf by when for what, at what cost? And we really have not a, as surprising as that might seem, that we have not really articulated that as a nation. And then as after we determine that, put our structures and our resources in service to that understanding that in particular parts of this pipeline, if you will, like K 12, you know, the major investor in that, of course is our states. Through our public schools and now choice programs and, and, and other things. So very much mindful that the drivers of these policies and actually the doers of the work, the hard work, those people who are in our community college classrooms and in our K 12 classrooms and in our, on our workforce boards and on and on. They are the ones that are on the front lines of their regional economies. So how do we create a national strategy that's in support of an enterprise that has incredible variance, but is a huge priority, as you say, all across the board. And if we don't eloy, and you know this, I mean the, the, the challenge challenges that AI and technology are going to pose for our system have the potential to do. Massive dislocation of our, of our workforce. And so we better get our act together, or we're going to have, and, and the people of our country are gonna have a lot of heartbreak and problems because we will, we will not have adequately supported their futures.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249I couldn't agree more and in, in my view and in my experience, this is where bipartisanship plays a huge role because the challenges you just described affect. People on all sides of the aisle, particularly if you are a working class American struggling day to day, paycheck to paycheck you've had poor access to quality post-secondary experience. You, you don't know where to get the skills. You're working two and three jobs just to make ends meet. This is true in a blue state. This is true in a red state. Gi given all that and the frustration people feel right now, because I can tell you in my experience Americans are feeling pretty frustrated. They no longer have the same confidence that they once did in higher education. They don't see the workforce relevance anymore. They're paying a lot of money for little return on their investment. How do we help? Americans get beyond that frustration and what is it gonna take at the federal level and what would you like to see states do?
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249Well, for starters, we need to to to harness the information. That, that can, can serve us and serve state and local policy makers around that. And right now, as you know, we have a very fragmented data strategy. The federal government collects a lot of information. The Trump administration has had some, some opinions about what should be collected and dispersed and proffered and whatnot. And so we need what I call a four FOR agenda on how, how do we harness information? I mean, this is the era of of data, and yet we're not really being very smart about how we understand what are our economies need, who are the people that need services? How do we get them from point A to point B as quickly as possible? And so harnessing our federal and state and local data systems. Around these objectives as yet to be fully articulated and and coherent around the long game kind of future. So starting with information just as you would if you were buying a car or picking a restaurant to go to dinner on Saturday night. So starting there and then I think. using our, our research enterprises, whether it's the CDC or the NSF or our universities and colleges, really to help us understand what are the most effective practices and to get those out broadly. And so, it's, it's just the same kind of management principles you'd use in a business, in a, in a community college system, in a higher ed system. You know, to start down the road, but we've, you know, we really have to make it a priority. And you're so right. People are disaffected right now in big, big ways, and we can do better on their behalf. And it's a, it's a crying shame really. We've spent a lot of money. They've spent a lot of money and, and too often gotten not enough for it.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249I think, we have to do better o otherwise the lack of confidence in government institutions and institutions in general is gonna continue to spiral in the wrong direction. I think we have a lot of work to do to gain the trust back of the American people Now. You worked in state and federal government you've seen the challenges in the way that the wheels turn in government. Just being there at the department of Education, you were. The first secretary that I as an administrator had to engage in the Department of Education directly. And a lot has changed in the last year at the Department of Education and in all agencies, and I'm certainly not one of those people that'll sit here and be nostalgic about how wonderful the Department of
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249Yes. Amen. Nor will I.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249We as administrators always complained about the bureaucracy, but there's also this concern about, where do we go from here?
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249Hmm.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249what is the role of the federal government in, in, in the work that's happening at BPC with this commission? What do you think the right role for the federal government is and how do we get to a place where there is a true federal, state partnership to really enact this American talent strategy?
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249And, and that's why an important recommendation is this National Talent Council that has the heft of our leaders, whether they're congressional or the president, the White House, the administrative branch, so that we can elevate that. You know, my own view about this I, in no way am I gonna be an apologist for the past and the. for, for the bureaucracy and things, because things can be better and they have to be better, particularly now given the, the challenges that, that we have demographically because of tech, immigration policy, all the various, you know, stew of issues that are really gonna call on us to rise to the occasion. My own view is that of course there's a federal role. And we need it. And it's largely a civil rights role. You know, it's not against the law to close the achievement gap, and yet states and localities have not done that. And who is it? Be who better to light the fire, to elevate those issues and to say, we're better than that. Than the federal government. that's how we've made progress over the years. I mean, I don't think we would've had a Civil Rights act if we'd left it up to state. I mean, we did try it, you know, just for states to do the right thing. I think that that transparency, that national imperative, that leadership. Resources to support it. I mean, are all important ingredients, you know, the American people, particularly in this job market where you being educated in California, but you're about to move to Texas, as it seems like a lot of people are doing. You know, they, they don't, you know, math skill doesn't, stop at the border, you know, we owe people. This, civil right of, you know, opportunity, which is education, and they ought to have confidence and in it, and they ought to have faith that it can be provided them wherever they are.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249And the work of this commission really hones in, although it's not always. Specifically titled this way, but everything that you just described is what day-to-day working learners face we're not talking about, saving or creating a better system of opportunity for the top 1% of learners, or for that top one per percent of institutions who, who reject the majority of Americans from their institutions. We're talking about places like, the University of Texas system or the Cal State system, or. The Sunni system or UNC places where the majority of Americans from all walks of life go to because they want a better life.
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249Exactly.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249And so talk about that, the importance of really reaching that population of learners and workers in this country.
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249I used to say in my secretarial days, kind of tongue in cheek, you know, that 1% of institutions, they're not part, part of the problem and they're not part of the solution. If we're talking about educating the masses, I mean, God love them. We're, we're, we're for. They do a lot of good research, but when we talk about providing opportunity broadly to every American, the game is our community colleges and our public universities, period, paragraph, and they are, you know, better priced, they're more convenient, they're more sensitive to their local economies. That, you know, and on and on. And so that's why we need to make sure our systems are largely in service to them and to, to the priority that they have. 'cause that's what's gonna drive our country and our economy forward. Absolutely. But you know, they too are challenged these days given all manner of things, politics, skepticism about the value proposition. But as you know, you've worked on it, they can course correct, you know, pretty quickly
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249I think, all of us in the higher education marketplace need to come together at a time like this because what we need to do is create more on-ramps and support, more on-ramps, not take up all the airspace. In the news cycle for 1% of the institutions. I saw a statistic once, 97% of all articles in the New York Times about higher education centered on either Harvard or Columbia. The community college system of Texas does a much greater job of creating economic mobility than the entire Ivy League combined.
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249question. Absolutely. And, and likewise, California.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249So Margaret. Given everything we've just talked about and everything you just described about the importance of this moment, and in my view, this moment couldn't be more important. Not only did we have a lack of confidence in higher education brewing before the pandemic, the pandemic put that on steroids. The pandemic up ended many of our institutions and how, and how the public thinks about our institutions. But now we have. All these pressures in the workforce, ai how would you like Congress to think about these recommendations and what kind of urgency should they be acting under?
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249Well, we should have great urgency, no doubt about it. there's a lot of opinions about whether AI is gonna be the best thing that ever happened to civilization, or the worst thing or the death now, but, but one thing we know for sure is that it's new to everybody. And people have not gotten themselves out on partisan limbs one way or the other. Really, particularly as it relates to the workforce. People understand that, you know, the, the stakes are extremely high for our country, for our economy, for individuals, for our, our civic fabric. And, and so the fact that we're all kind of new to the party, I think is a great opening and a great opportunity to create that. Urgency to act and to have a different approach that's more efficient, that's more relevant, that's more affordable, all of those sorts of things. So I think there's a real opening. We're not gonna litigate the battles of the past because this is, this is a new battle. And and so I, I, I'm excited about, about using that as an opening. What the Congress should do is let's get clear on. On what we're trying to do, our, our priorities. Let's get clear that this is a long game. Let's get clear that this is not a federal government, one size fits all solution that states localities. All parts of this pipeline, as we call it, have to be engaged and, you know, headed, you know, all pointed in the same direction to get the lead on the target. And how we will do that is elevating this as a national imperative. Through a national talent strategy that can garner, you know, support and buy in around kind of the big the biggest themes. Because, you know, listen, Eloy, you and I wouldn't even be on this podcast, podcast unless we, you know, had educational opportunity that. You know, was a pathway for our careers and for our, our lives, and that's still true. And so, I mean, it, it really, I can't think of anything more important and more valuable and more. Elevated and more worthy than this work. And I think the Congress sees that too. I mean, we can have the greatest infrastructure, we can have the, you know, greatest healthcare system, but if we don't have people that can work in it, use it, and be party to it, our, you know, our country will go nowhere fast. And so, you know, I know you feel that way or you wouldn't have devoted your entire career to these issues too. But it's real. And it's, it's. High time and it's the right time.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249I agree and it is what keeps me coming to work wherever I work. And you mentioned something that, that always rings true in my mind, especially since, you've been at this even longer than I have and you know how many meetings you've sat in, how many commissions or task forces or board meetings you've sat in, where we continue to try and litigate the past. in my view, it's time to just focus on the future. Yes.
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249Exactly.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249Unwinding the past will be challenging. There are entrenched constituencies who wanna hold on to the current infrastructure because it suits them. But we have to finally get to a point in my view that we center policy based on. The worker needs, what the learner needs,
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249Exactly.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249and then build around that, build the infrastructure, the policy infrastructure around that. Instead, as secretary, I'm sure you had to deal with all the different lobbying efforts from all the different constituent groups who kept telling you that if we don't increase power, if we don't do this, we're gonna go away. Never mentioning the student
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249The user. Exactly. I used to say, and I know you feel it too. You know, it's as if we're trying to keep people out of these systems, not get 'em in and through. I mean, you couldn't design something that's more you know, difficult to navigate. Now that's, you know, that ain't gonna work for, you know, the AI world and for our country.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249That's right. Yeah, that's right. So my hope is through these efforts, we have a lot more transparency. We have a lot more information that goes to the consumer the learner, the worker, how do they improve them their own lives? How do they get more agency in that process? I really appreciate the work that you've been leading, particularly around this effort. I'm going to be putting information about where to access the report and more information about PPC in the note section of this podcast, but from your point of view, Margaret for listeners, for viewers, for people who pick up that report and states across the country, what would you like them to do with the information?
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249Well, for starters, thank you Eloy, for the opportunity to talk with you today, but also thank you for your incredible involvement in this project because it's the right thing at the right time, and what I would like the listeners to be left with is to help engage in this discussion. I mean, I don't. No matter who you are, this is the beauty and the bane of education is everybody's an expert. Everybody's a user, everybody's an employer, a student, a lifelong learner, you know, so engage actively as we collectively talk about what do we need for whom? At white price and where, and so get off the bench and come on down. And, you know, here's the other thing about this issue is it's a great starter kit because you know, you don't have to be an expert. You are an expert, you are a user. So
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249E everybody has had experience one way or another in the education system. Everybody's had experience in the workforce and nobody's happy about the way it it transpires. So this is an opportunity for everyone to. Pick up that report to talk to. This is not just a national issue. This is an issue in states and in cities about how these systems work together and how we think about childcare, how we think about the employer's role, how we think about lifelong upskilling and training, how we think about giving agency to workers and learners. So this is something that everyone should be thinking about. So let me ask you one last question as we begin to wrap up, Margaret. So we've talked about the. The work around the the commission on the American workforce. What else is BPC doing? I'm sure there's other things that you're working on, and what should we be looking for in the future
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249Well, thanks for that. Everything that we do at BPC is really in service to the American economy and, you know, opportunity for our nation. And so we work on health, we work on energy, we work on fiscal policy and making sure that we have a, a better, more solvent future for our country and, and how we run the ship of state. We also work on the thing that undergirds all of this, and that is. Our governance as a country. And so we pay a lot of attention to the elections, to building capacity at the local level, to making sure that people have trust and faith in how their elections are run and governed. And so it's a, it's an important discreet but very powerful remit that I'm, I'm very proud to lead.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249On that note, Margaret, I really appreciate you being on The Rantt Podcast and I really appreciate you staying in the game since you've been. In Texas onto the White House you've stayed in these issues and you continue to push forward, so I really appreciate your leadership.
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249All right. Well thanks for being my teammate on the field to play Eloy. We're not done yet.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249No, we are definitely not done yet. All right.
squadcaster-d148_1_02-23-2026_120249thank you.
eloy-ortiz-oakley_1_02-23-2026_090249thank you Margaret, and thanks for joining us. Everybody here on The Rant podcast. I've been speaking with Margaret Spelling, our eighth US Secretary of Education who now leads the Bipartisan Policy Center. We've been talking about the Bipartisan Policy Center's Commission on the American workforce. Report and recommendations, which I will put in the note section of this podcast. I hope everybody takes time to read it and gets involved. So thanks for joining us, everybody. If you're following us on YouTube, please hit subscribe. If you're listening us on your audio podcast platform, download this episode and continue to follow us. Thanks for joining us, everybody, and we'll see you all soon.
